Supernatural Dash Commentary
Nov. 11th, 2020 09:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
madimpossibledreamer/curious about supernatural lit analysis
/starts searching
EDIT: I read about the Supernatural ending. There's a lot of problems wrong with it, including glorifying abuse, incest, suicidal ideation, and homophobia. Please take that into consideration before you continue reading and/or watch the show/finale. The first part under the cut was my reaction to reading about episode...19? of the final season and the speculations I read as to where it was going to go. I was fairly positive at the time because they had a lot of cool roads that they were taking that turned out to lead absolutely nowhere. I am not so positive now. Take care of yourselves and if you need help ask someone for help. You're not a burden; therapists and people on the helplines are where they are because they want to help you.
EXCUSE YOU WHAT JUST HAPPENED I AM OUT OF THE LOOP
ARE THEY GOING FULL META AND NOT JUST DIPPING THEIR TOES IN THE WATER
AND DOING THE ACTUAL DEATH OF THE AUTHOR
ALSO THEY MADE THINGS CANON
AND IT'S EVEN MORE CANON BECAUSE THE WRITERS DIDN'T EXPECT THIS, THEY WEREN'T PLANNING ON KEEPING CAS AROUND, IT JUST...
HOW MANY DIMENSIONS ARE INVOLVED BECAUSE THIS IS BEYOND 4-D THERE ARE LAYERS AND LAYERS HERE
this is breaking my brain a little
it's, like, just yesterday I remember hearing about the panel where they were making fun of the Destiel shippers which definitely contributed to me becoming a lapsed supernatural fan. is that a thing you say?
okay, this is just. Cas was supposed to be Constantine, but instead, because they couldn't get the rights, they got a cosplaying nerdy angel. they weren't planning on keeping Cas around, but he was popular enough he got to stick around for seasons and seasons. they (i'm pretty sure) were planning on keeping him a good soldier and then heterosexual and that didn't work. it's not clear if the times they killed him off they were planning on keeping him dead, but that definitely didn't stick either. at some point they just decided to roll with it, like 'yeah, okay, let's go full meta with this because this isn't going to plan and we already have Chuck and the actual god/author'...
(I really want to make a Full Meta Alchemist reference but I've legit only read the first chapter
mostly because I keep saying full meta)
I definitely was proud of them for all the anti-Trump stuff though. and there's extra meta because they were like 'okay, illegal angel + hunters living off the grid, probably can't vote but would campaign for biden like crazy WHICH IS WHAT THEY WERE DOING'
+ extra-an Idle Thought I'd written but not yet published that has kinda for obvious reasons become clearly out of date, i.e. in places just wrong, though some Dean parallels were clearly out of date from the start of the show (and yeah, my list of Idle Thoughts is over a year out, i don't remember when i wrote this):
I'm actually kinda glad Supernatural didn't get Hellblazer rights, because as awesome as it would be to have Constantine and how well he fits the world, I can't believe the writers would do a good job with the loveable bi ass. Hellblazer is pretty much an irreverent deconstruction. Of everything. Especially all those machismo stuff? He's either flipping the bird, sinking into it (and Hellblazer spares no expense in showing WHY the lone wolf brooding into a bottle-and-cancer stick is a problem/not good), or running from it (Constantine is the SMART one--he's not heroically sacrificing himself to save the day, he's not even saving face by saying he's "retreating with style", he'd straight up say he ran with his tail between his legs--this is a guy whose best moment, from what I've read, is when he's using his sharp, clever tongue). Forget the TV show (I liked the TV show and Matt Ryan will forever be 'my' Hellblazer because the network told him 'you can't show you're bi, you can't smoke, you can't drink' and he was like 'I'll do what I want you bloody bastards'. Maybe a bit less in-your-face than the comics, but still, clever, rebellious, got the point across. anyway), forget the movie (whose version of Hell was awesome and whose Chas--sorry, KRAMER--is a tragedy), the Supernatural writers would get it wrong. They don't have the self-awareness to write the problematic bastard and get that he's problematic and still one of the best things that happened to comic books because of how meta it gets. They definitely wouldn't write him as bi, not (probably) because of the network but because they can't see guys in a romantic or sexual relationship as a good thing. (I'm happy about what I've heard about his relationships on Legends of Tomorrow, and it's the closest thing to making me watch the show. Maybe at posting I will.) Basically: They don't get that it's ironic, the tropes Constantine falls into, the tropes that the Laughing Magician avoids. Like the people that see Fight Club and take it at face value, they'd just write it as 'this is good/cool/badass'. While the real Constantine knows that it's ironic. He's more self aware than the writers that would write him, up to and including the fourth wall. And that's kind of sad.
so, in summary: if they got the right actor he could've actually been Hellblazer considering what they've been letting Jensen and Misha get away with. because some of the stuff is very much in common with dean's characterization (and yeah, I should've picked that up earlier, considering he's been making it ironic since S1). i'm still glad they didn't get the rights for a completely different reason: because cas would not have happened. and, y'know, johnny's proud. giving the writers the finger and going on to do whatever the hell you want? ((same with being bi and telling politics to screw off. and those that can't deal? cry me a river; Hellblazer's supposed to be in-your-face and not conform to society's norms especially when they're stupid)) constantine's legacy is in the right place.
Okay, just read about the ending, and. I spent way too much time and stayed up late reading blogs on the finale and the one thing I hate more than anything else is an awesome setup with fifteen different threads failing to go anywhere (good idea, bad execution), but...this feels malicious and trolly on a level it ascended to the next plane of existence
but then
this is the cw I should not be surprised. they bungle ongoing shows with a level of skill that never fails to amaz. legit, you have to be trying hard to mess up that badly
also
they would've messed up constantine 100%
I just...supporting your incest shippers (not a moral high ground no matter how much they think it is*), the next level of the kill your gays trope, refusing to have a gay confession acknowledged afterwards, suggesting the only way that dean could achieve peace was by dying (NOT COOL I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE DEALING WITH SUICIDAL IDEATION ADDRESS HOW THIS FINALE HURT THEM ON BLOGS AND THE SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITY WERE THE ONLY ONES HELPING BECAUSE THE AUTHORS CAN'T BE ARSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE WORDS THEY WROTE MATTER), putting dean in a heaven forever with his canonically emotionally/verbally abusive father, glorifying the unhealthy codependent relationship, not letting Dean move on and be allowed to be himself rather than the persona he put on because he was told his little brother would die if he did somethign John Winchester disapproved of, writing the ending that the Author you killed off would've wanted, writing an ending that would have worked replacing the pilot as a short movie, writing an ending that one of three leads (I'm sorry, Cas has been there long enough, he's a co-lead) liked and the other two hated...Like, taking all of the people's expectations and gleefully stomping on it is very much like giving a kid an ice cream cone, watching their face light up, and then slapping it out of their hand and breaking it under your shoe as they stare in disbelief.
*I don't care if you write incest in your little corner of the internet but don't harass other people, that's just not cool. I am also not sure how incest between two brothers doesn't count as homosexual. Unless you're implying one of them is actually nonbinary or trans....
I am glad I got out several seasons ago because if I'd still been watching, still been invested, rather than a lapsed Supernatural fan, this would've devastated me. Instead I spent this morning complaining about all the things wrong with it to beta-senpai and my mom (who stopped watching even earlier but was fully supportive in how completely jacked up this was).
I forgot to mention one thing. I had trouble envisioning where to go with Lucky Strike because I wanted him to meet a still hunting Sam & Sam being hesitant at first but Bobby's kept him up to date and he gets on board. I wanted to write a supportive Sam, but I had trouble writing it. Given that Jared liked the finale, I'm wondering if he's homophobic and that's what I was picking up on and having trouble writing that characterization. Somebody who's seen more/read more interviews/whatever, can you tell me if i'm accurate?
/starts searching
EDIT: I read about the Supernatural ending. There's a lot of problems wrong with it, including glorifying abuse, incest, suicidal ideation, and homophobia. Please take that into consideration before you continue reading and/or watch the show/finale. The first part under the cut was my reaction to reading about episode...19? of the final season and the speculations I read as to where it was going to go. I was fairly positive at the time because they had a lot of cool roads that they were taking that turned out to lead absolutely nowhere. I am not so positive now. Take care of yourselves and if you need help ask someone for help. You're not a burden; therapists and people on the helplines are where they are because they want to help you.
ARE THEY GOING FULL META AND NOT JUST DIPPING THEIR TOES IN THE WATER
AND DOING THE ACTUAL DEATH OF THE AUTHOR
ALSO THEY MADE THINGS CANON
AND IT'S EVEN MORE CANON BECAUSE THE WRITERS DIDN'T EXPECT THIS, THEY WEREN'T PLANNING ON KEEPING CAS AROUND, IT JUST...
HOW MANY DIMENSIONS ARE INVOLVED BECAUSE THIS IS BEYOND 4-D THERE ARE LAYERS AND LAYERS HERE
this is breaking my brain a little
it's, like, just yesterday I remember hearing about the panel where they were making fun of the Destiel shippers which definitely contributed to me becoming a lapsed supernatural fan. is that a thing you say?
okay, this is just. Cas was supposed to be Constantine, but instead, because they couldn't get the rights, they got a cosplaying nerdy angel. they weren't planning on keeping Cas around, but he was popular enough he got to stick around for seasons and seasons. they (i'm pretty sure) were planning on keeping him a good soldier and then heterosexual and that didn't work. it's not clear if the times they killed him off they were planning on keeping him dead, but that definitely didn't stick either. at some point they just decided to roll with it, like 'yeah, okay, let's go full meta with this because this isn't going to plan and we already have Chuck and the actual god/author'...
(I really want to make a Full Meta Alchemist reference but I've legit only read the first chapter
mostly because I keep saying full meta)
I definitely was proud of them for all the anti-Trump stuff though. and there's extra meta because they were like 'okay, illegal angel + hunters living off the grid, probably can't vote but would campaign for biden like crazy WHICH IS WHAT THEY WERE DOING'
+ extra-an Idle Thought I'd written but not yet published that has kinda for obvious reasons become clearly out of date, i.e. in places just wrong, though some Dean parallels were clearly out of date from the start of the show (and yeah, my list of Idle Thoughts is over a year out, i don't remember when i wrote this):
I'm actually kinda glad Supernatural didn't get Hellblazer rights, because as awesome as it would be to have Constantine and how well he fits the world, I can't believe the writers would do a good job with the loveable bi ass. Hellblazer is pretty much an irreverent deconstruction. Of everything. Especially all those machismo stuff? He's either flipping the bird, sinking into it (and Hellblazer spares no expense in showing WHY the lone wolf brooding into a bottle-and-cancer stick is a problem/not good), or running from it (Constantine is the SMART one--he's not heroically sacrificing himself to save the day, he's not even saving face by saying he's "retreating with style", he'd straight up say he ran with his tail between his legs--this is a guy whose best moment, from what I've read, is when he's using his sharp, clever tongue). Forget the TV show (I liked the TV show and Matt Ryan will forever be 'my' Hellblazer because the network told him 'you can't show you're bi, you can't smoke, you can't drink' and he was like 'I'll do what I want you bloody bastards'. Maybe a bit less in-your-face than the comics, but still, clever, rebellious, got the point across. anyway), forget the movie (whose version of Hell was awesome and whose Chas--sorry, KRAMER--is a tragedy), the Supernatural writers would get it wrong. They don't have the self-awareness to write the problematic bastard and get that he's problematic and still one of the best things that happened to comic books because of how meta it gets. They definitely wouldn't write him as bi, not (probably) because of the network but because they can't see guys in a romantic or sexual relationship as a good thing. (I'm happy about what I've heard about his relationships on Legends of Tomorrow, and it's the closest thing to making me watch the show. Maybe at posting I will.) Basically: They don't get that it's ironic, the tropes Constantine falls into, the tropes that the Laughing Magician avoids. Like the people that see Fight Club and take it at face value, they'd just write it as 'this is good/cool/badass'. While the real Constantine knows that it's ironic. He's more self aware than the writers that would write him, up to and including the fourth wall. And that's kind of sad.
so, in summary: if they got the right actor he could've actually been Hellblazer considering what they've been letting Jensen and Misha get away with. because some of the stuff is very much in common with dean's characterization (and yeah, I should've picked that up earlier, considering he's been making it ironic since S1). i'm still glad they didn't get the rights for a completely different reason: because cas would not have happened. and, y'know, johnny's proud. giving the writers the finger and going on to do whatever the hell you want? ((same with being bi and telling politics to screw off. and those that can't deal? cry me a river; Hellblazer's supposed to be in-your-face and not conform to society's norms especially when they're stupid)) constantine's legacy is in the right place.
Okay, just read about the ending, and. I spent way too much time and stayed up late reading blogs on the finale and the one thing I hate more than anything else is an awesome setup with fifteen different threads failing to go anywhere (good idea, bad execution), but...this feels malicious and trolly on a level it ascended to the next plane of existence
but then
this is the cw I should not be surprised. they bungle ongoing shows with a level of skill that never fails to amaz. legit, you have to be trying hard to mess up that badly
also
they would've messed up constantine 100%
I just...supporting your incest shippers (not a moral high ground no matter how much they think it is*), the next level of the kill your gays trope, refusing to have a gay confession acknowledged afterwards, suggesting the only way that dean could achieve peace was by dying (NOT COOL I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE DEALING WITH SUICIDAL IDEATION ADDRESS HOW THIS FINALE HURT THEM ON BLOGS AND THE SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITY WERE THE ONLY ONES HELPING BECAUSE THE AUTHORS CAN'T BE ARSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE WORDS THEY WROTE MATTER), putting dean in a heaven forever with his canonically emotionally/verbally abusive father, glorifying the unhealthy codependent relationship, not letting Dean move on and be allowed to be himself rather than the persona he put on because he was told his little brother would die if he did somethign John Winchester disapproved of, writing the ending that the Author you killed off would've wanted, writing an ending that would have worked replacing the pilot as a short movie, writing an ending that one of three leads (I'm sorry, Cas has been there long enough, he's a co-lead) liked and the other two hated...Like, taking all of the people's expectations and gleefully stomping on it is very much like giving a kid an ice cream cone, watching their face light up, and then slapping it out of their hand and breaking it under your shoe as they stare in disbelief.
*I don't care if you write incest in your little corner of the internet but don't harass other people, that's just not cool. I am also not sure how incest between two brothers doesn't count as homosexual. Unless you're implying one of them is actually nonbinary or trans....
I am glad I got out several seasons ago because if I'd still been watching, still been invested, rather than a lapsed Supernatural fan, this would've devastated me. Instead I spent this morning complaining about all the things wrong with it to beta-senpai and my mom (who stopped watching even earlier but was fully supportive in how completely jacked up this was).
I forgot to mention one thing. I had trouble envisioning where to go with Lucky Strike because I wanted him to meet a still hunting Sam & Sam being hesitant at first but Bobby's kept him up to date and he gets on board. I wanted to write a supportive Sam, but I had trouble writing it. Given that Jared liked the finale, I'm wondering if he's homophobic and that's what I was picking up on and having trouble writing that characterization. Somebody who's seen more/read more interviews/whatever, can you tell me if i'm accurate?
